Regarding Elite Iron Maxing Competition

[Bunny]

Since the release of the competition, people have been grinding hard towards the max cape, providing a fun and competitive

nature around progressing their accounts quickly. The competition itself though hasn't been very fair to everyone. 

Reason of making this thread

A lot of users have been grinding hours upon hours, days upon days towards being the first elite iron to achieve the max cape, and win themselves a prize. However, in that countless time of grinding, many many changes happened that took out methods/bugs from the game that were giving broken xp rates or just a lot of xp in general for little to no cost to the user. Once these changes were made, the players that have abused these bugs were pushed further ahead from everyone else, whether they put a lot less effort into skills or an equal amount. 

Examples of Bugs/Methods Abused Before/After

Smithing

• - Blast furnace ore shop restocked at a rate of 100 per restock
• - Blast furnace ore shop restocks at a rate of 1 slowly now overtime
•  
• - Blast furnace prices for ores were dirt cheap
• - Blast furnace prices for ores are now expensive
•  
• - Blast furnace bar holder would hold an infinite amount of bars allowing players to dump as much gold ore as they want inside
• - Blast furnace bar holder is now fixed and you must remove the inventory of bars before you can place more inside

With these things alone, this has put many players I'd say at least a days worth of In-Game time behind, from collecting the ore, to having to remove the bars after each deposit. Some players did 99 smithing through this method, and it's no wheres near the pace as it was before to get 99 in it. Actual bar xp isn't anywheres near the gold ore rush people used before it was patched.

Construction

 

• - 2 Molten glass provided 1.4k construction experience on the clockmakers bench
• - 2 molten glass now provides 16 xp per on the clockmakers bench

This one is a HUGE deal compared to the smithing. The smithing was a day more or so in-game play time to achieve the 99, however construction is a whole different story. The ease of obtaining the molten glass is incredible. This allowed players to use superglass make, bank the molten glass and then use it for construction. For those reading it who think 1.4k xp doesn't sound like a lot, it is. I will try to put it more into perspective, depending on your donator rank, planks vary in price for creation to use for your construction journey. As a normal donor, mahogany planks were costing around 10k per plank make, and if not mistaken 15k per make at a lumbermill. 6 mahogany planks is around 6k xp when making mahogany tables. In terms, it would cost 60,000 coins for 6,000 xp. Yes mahogany is expensive, lets say we did oak planks instead, it costs 2,250 gp to make 1 oak plank. You need 8 oak planks for a larder which is 18k total gp. This yields you 3.8k experience, cheaper than mahogany, just a lot more work included. Going back to the molten glass, you can purchase the seaweed and the buckets of sand for less than 5 gp each, and create an inv of molten glass (14-18 glass). What just cost you maybe 200 gp made you 7k-9k xp compared to 60k gp for 6k xp with mahoganies or 18k xp for 3.8k experience with oaks, mind you the supplies also were bought in seconds and not chopped or gotten from pvm. This patch alone has put some players that abused it DAYS AHEAD OF IN-GAME TIME.  Abusing these actions made several players high constructions very very cheap and extremely efficient. It was faster to make molten glass a WAY CHEAPER method which was a BUG to begin with for massive xp gains.

 

How This Can Be Resolved

• Option 1
• Staff can review all the high total'd elite ironmen that have smithing/construction high and manually take out the experience that was gained from the bugs. This would not take away anything from the person other than the experience gained from the bugs which shouldn't have been there from the first place.
•  
• Option 2
• Players that wish to compete in the maxing competition can have their stats set back to a lower level to give everyone a fair chance at maxing. Whether it's setting the stats of them to 50 smithing and 50 construction, or 1 smithing and 1 construction, it puts everyone on the same playing field.
• Option 3
• Reverting at least the construction update. It would be nice if both could be reverted, but I think the unlimited bars for smithing is severely op, and I don't mind taking a days loss of time on that, however the construction is a LOT more important, thats Days on Days of in-game time that could be saved.
•  
• This all needs to be taken into consideration, cause all these changes are extremely important when it comes to the competition. Something NEEDS to happen. Many players have spent more time than they should have grinding, just to be set back. The players that were once hours or days ahead of the rest of the competition, are now days behind the ones that abused overpowered bugs pertaining to experience.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Bunny
Adding Option 3

[Diamond]

Tricky subject as I see where you're coming from. But then the players who have gained from the bugs will also be complaining saying it's not their fault the bugs weren't fixed properly and I also spent time grinding ect. 

At the end of the day this is a RSPS and I know everyone expects it to be spick and span flawless without bugs but that's not going to be the reality. I know it's unfair and I know everyone wants a fair competition but it's hard on a rsps. Sometimes you just need to use what cards you have been dealt and crack on. 

Everyone's always going to have an opinion on these situations, so it's hard to please everyone,

This one will need to be left for the owners to sort out, personally I think this could be reviewed and offer a 1st/2nd/3rd place if you feel this way. That's just me though.

Good Luck

-Diamond 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Diamond

[Bunny]

Not included in the thread, but also for construction there was limestone bricks before the gp was raised that people used for massive gain.

[Ironsky]

While im personally not trying to go for the prizes. I support the fact that this is too much. I fully understand the need to fix these bugs as soon as possible. and fully agree that they were fixed.

To quote @Diamonds post. Ofcourse there will be bugs, and sometimes you have to accept it and move on, but does it not make much more sense then to remove smithing levels and construction levels. instead of allowing people to abuse these methods. Does that not send the message of: "If you find a bug, abuse it before it gets fixed" ? instead of the much prefered, if you find a bug, report it so it can be fixed.

I would highly suggest either removing experience from Elite irons that want to compete for the first max grind OR just removing the experience from everybody. of which i personally think the first option makes more sense.

You can't just change the methods so massively during a competition. if you do nothing about this you are rewarding people who abused a bug while punishing those who didn't

[Andrew]

This seems extremely unfair. I can see why they changed it, but I think it should've waited until the competition was done. Since people have already abused it, it gives them a huge advantage...

Edited December 11, 2020 by Andrew

[Fancy Bear]

I see where you're coming from but such is life, they would have to roll this back the entire server probably. Asking a staff to recant xp that was gained whilst you were unable to abuse a bug is a bit crazy.

 

I don't see anything happening surrounding this. Perhaps the winners accounts will be reviewed to see if they used bug manipulation in anyway? 

[Xp waste]

how are you going to prove they did that method? and also staff knew about a the construction method for a week before it was fixed. 

[Ironsky]

Because it is realistically impossible for them to have grinded all those skills +  the 90m gp required to plankmake teaks for 99 construction @Xp waste

[JB RSPS]

I am one  of the top Elite ironmen at the moment, and I did neither of those bugs. Quit bitching and get grinding like a gamer boy.

[FAQ]

Each and every one of these methods have been known since day 1, and were utilized and publicized by the players racing in the regular Ironman race.

Gnars was streaming his efforts, Zara released a video the day after he maxed revealing his methods.

Everyone has had a level playing field, and no one has done anything different than what was done by a player that was already paid out. Additionally you're only focusing on the Elite Ironman bracket as it personally affects you, whereas I would argue that Ultimate Ironmen may have been impacted even more so by this, as raw materials take much longer to acquire.

Besides them being well known methods, what's to say someone was able to determine something wasn't a legitimately intended method? Do you use actual OSRS as a guide? This is a private server, and we've all seen the insane things servers have done in the name of "QoL" or to be unique.

1. The withdraw option for Blast Furnace stated that Legendary Donors and above could withdraw noted bars, someone could use this being different from OSRS to assume that the development team made the conscious decision to make this a quality of life change.

2. Blast Furnace prices were 1:1 with OSRS (as far as I know, I didn't get 99 smithing). I don't see this as being a reason to punish players.

3. Construction having a different XP rate for the workbenchs could also be seen as the development team providing an alternative to the usual plank making grind. They offer an entire shop for buying herblore secondaries for ironmen, after all.

For most players, myself included, I was never told this was a bug and we saw people max in normal ironman. Popular streamers (Gnar's stream often having David in the chat, and even being promoted in-game when he got to inferno) were using these methods and making them public. There shouldn't be any action taken against players who simply followed the lead of people already acknowledged by the developers as legitimately maxing their accounts. I've also heard that beta testers were made aware of these things, and, presumably, reported them. This isn't even a matter of methods being used by only beta testers, as these methods made their way around nearly ever ironman cc.

Whether or not you followed the lead of those who maxed before you is simply a matter of priorities, in my opinion. If anything, make the methods available again (and then I can finally max smithing easily).

Edited to add: The wall safes in rogue's den being nerfed also impacts players as they have to use the much slower glassblowing method. Should we add this to the list?

Edited December 11, 2020 by FAQ

[Xp waste]

17 minutes ago, Ironsky said:

Because it is realistically impossible for them to have grinded all those skills +  the 90m gp required to plankmake teaks for 99 construction @Xp waste

there is a way more efficient method for doing 99 construction than needing 90m and teaks. just because people dont know the metas for every skill doesnt mean its not fair. 

[RlGGED]

2 minutes ago, Xp waste said:

there is a way more efficient method for doing 99 construction than needing 90m and teaks. 

Do tell

[Xp waste]

why would you tell metas during a race. thats where you guys are nuts for thinking anyone would share that info until after the race.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Xp waste

[RlGGED]

4 minutes ago, Xp waste said:

why would you tell metas during a race. thats where you guys are nuts for thinking anyone would share that info until after the race.

Pipe down, you're not winning the race. 

Now spill the beans 🙂

[Bunny]

3 minutes ago, FAQ said:

Everyone has had a level playing field, and no one has done anything different than what was done by a player that was already paid out. Additionally you're only focusing on the Elite Ironman bracket as it personally affects you, whereas I would argue that Ultimate Ironmen may have been impacted even more so by this, as raw materials take much longer to acquire.

It does personally affect me, but this post wasn't specifically for me, a lot of the community who's been grinding has had this same thought. We've had discussions several times across the time from server release up to now about this, and the construction update is what pushed me into making a post about it.

 

6 minutes ago, FAQ said:

The withdraw option for Blast Furnace stated that Legendary Donors and above could withdraw noted bars, someone could use this being different from OSRS to assume that the development team made the conscious decision to make this a quality of life change.

That's an understandable situation that could have been presented, however as mentioned above, if smithing was the only issue, then this thread more than likely would have never been made, it's what progressed past that which pushed this issue.

8 minutes ago, FAQ said:

Blast Furnace prices were 1:1 with OSRS (as far as I know, I didn't get 99 smithing). I don't see this as being a reason to punish players.

Again, smithing was an issue but not the sole purpose of this post, and it's not a punishment to the player no matter how this is going to be taken. If they do decide to take action, at the end of the day a bug is a bug, so the bugged xp would be removed, or done with as they please. 

10 minutes ago, FAQ said:

Construction having a different XP rate for the workbenchs could also be seen as the development team providing an alternative to the usual plank making grind. They offer an entire shop for buying herblore secondaries for ironmen, after all.

Construction with different xp rates for the workbenches isn't the bug. The xp may have been correct, the actual bug is that you need to build the pre-requisite benches before you can add the next tier, oak planks > 1 molten > 2 molten > oak planks, to create the higher benches. This oversight allowed an op method into the game that was abused by many of ironmen, which was then patched and made completely worthless leaving people so far ahead that it's no wheres near close. You might be able to max an account from scratch with 99 construction before someone maxes an account right now with 1 construction.

 

13 minutes ago, FAQ said:

Whether or not you followed the lead of those who maxed before you is simply a matter of priorities, in my opinion. If anything, make the methods available again (and then I can finally max smithing easily).

This option would be the best one that I see fit, maybe not the smithing one as that one was severely broken, and as mentioned above would take a day maximum to catch up, but the construction one at least should be reverted. That one can take days upon days to catch up on via cutting logs or getting them as drops, then turning into planks. Or by purchasing limestone etc with the mass amount of coins you will need.

[November]

I support this but it'll never happen.

 

First to know, first to act... which is why Beta Testers should not be included in the Cox / Tob event IMO.

[Fersken]

I also support this.

 

Atleast revert the changes made to construction for those who are participating in the race that way they have a chance. This way both parties won't be affected by anything whatsoever.

 

[Ironsky]

while this post is focussed on elite ironman  as thats the gamemode played by the author, i also agree that ultimate ironman should be looked at aswel regarding this specific issue.

[FAQ]

Quote

Construction with different xp rates for the workbenches isn't the bug. The xp may have been correct, the actual bug is that you need to build the pre-requisite benches before you can add the next tier, oak planks > 1 molten > 2 molten > oak planks, to create the higher benches. This oversight allowed an op method into the game that was abused by many of ironmen, which was then patched and made completely worthless leaving people so far ahead that it's no wheres near close. You might be able to max an account from scratch with 99 construction before someone maxes an account right now with 1 construction.

If this is the case then this bug still exists. They only changed the xp rates. This bug also exists in every aspect of a Player Owned House (as far as I can tell), for example you can upgrade the tools space in the workshop repeatedly as well.

[Bunny]

1 minute ago, FAQ said:

If this is the case then this bug still exists. They only changed the xp rates. This bug also exists in every aspect of a Player Owned House (as far as I can tell), for example you can upgrade the tools space in the workshop repeatedly as well.

Either way, the amount of massive gain that some players took from this bug is completely unfair to everyone competing. What took them hours, will take others days. That's a huge time difference when it comes to competing in a competition.

[n o v a]

I agree patching the methods before the race is over is annoying, but at the same time, if you prioritized other skills when everyone and their mom knew about these methods, that's on you. We all knew they would be going at some point, just nobody knew when. Was it annoying for me when xp waste was 99 smithing and I only got 85 before BF was patched? Sure. But he also took off work to grind which is something I couldn't do, so he was going to be leagues ahead of me anyways. There's always going to be someone else with a slight advantage and I don't see how resetting xp to make up for that is helpful at this stage. Race is almost over afterall

[Mike]

as i am competing in this comp i would +1 this as its not fair for most people. +1

[Mully]

I think both “bugs” should be reverted until after somebody has won the competition. It’s not exactly ground breaking in my opinion. And it is very unfair to the players who are skilling their asses off to win first place by playing fairly. 
 

I support it being reverted back to how it was until somebody has maxed.

[Ironsky]

18 minutes ago, Soren said:

I agree patching the methods before the race is over is annoying, but at the same time, if you prioritized other skills when everyone and their mom knew about these methods, that's on you. We all knew they would be going at some point, just nobody knew when. Was it annoying for me when xp waste was 99 smithing and I only got 85 before BF was patched? Sure. But he also took off work to grind which is something I couldn't do, so he was going to be leagues ahead of me anyways. There's always going to be someone else with a slight advantage and I don't see how resetting xp to make up for that is helpful at this stage. Race is almost over afterall

"if you find a bug, make sure to quickly abuse it before it gets patched"

Is that what your saying?

[Tim]

+1