Regarding Elite Iron Maxing Competition

[Mr Kim Jong]

I am not competing in this, but if I was I would be very pissed and would give up straight away if nothing was done about it to make it fair for all.

 

Something shouldn't be changed half way through a competition, where a high portion of people gained immense bonus over others, it's retarded.

 

Even minor changes would be annoying (lowered drop rates, xp rate changes on certain skills), but things like this are night and day difference.

 

 

[Ironsky]

just to clear any issues with construction xp rates and costs required for 99

this calculation takes 99 as being 13m xp. it also assumes planks were obtained through plankmake (cheaper then sawmill)

prices might be slightly scuffed because of my donor rank. but should convey the point correctly. if your a non donor remove the discount

normal irons with 50x skilling xp rates.

• Oak: 3000xp per plank. (13.000.000/3000= 4333,33) 4334 planks needed for 99. Price for 99 = 4334*1500= 6.5m
• Teak:  4500xp per plank, 2889 planks needed for 99. Price for 99 = 8.6m
• Mahogany: 7000xp per plank, 1857 planks needed for 99. Price for 99 = 16.7m

 

8x xprate irons (elite, ultimate etc)

Oak: 480xp per plank. 27083 planks needed for 99. Price for 99 = 40.6m

Teak: 720xp per plank.  18055 planks needed for 99. Price for 99 = 54.1m

Mahogany: 1120xp per plank. 11607 planks needed for 99. Price for 99 = 104.4m

[Havertz]

+1 

 

Also to add to the list, there was ridiculous xp rates for farming at one point that was abused and also the ultra compost bug. 

[Chaflie]

Hi there,

I've been spit-balling what to do about this problem in my mind for the last little bit, and I've come to the conclusion that resetting peoples levels, or putting a bug back into the game isn't quite acceptable.

We're currently waiting on David's input into the matter before we make any moves, but to get some ideas rolling that don't involve resetting people or putting a bug back into the game, would taking away the 10x modifier on plank prices for ironmen be something we can chat about?

[Bunny]

1 minute ago, Chaflie said:

Hi there,

I've been spit-balling what to do about this problem in my mind for the last little bit, and I've come to the conclusion that resetting peoples levels, or putting a bug back into the game isn't quite acceptable.

We're currently waiting on David's input into the matter before we make any moves, but to get some ideas rolling that don't involve resetting people or putting a bug back into the game, would taking away the 10x modifier on plank prices for ironmen be something we can chat about?

I quite like the idea of removing the 10x modifier. Would appreciate it a lot if this could be considered. I would happily support that, cause it would bring the playing ground a lot closer to fair than it is right now. Appreciate the time you took into reading/commenting on this. 🙂

[Chaflie]

Just now, Bunny said:

I quite like the idea of removing the 10x modifier. Would appreciate it a lot if this could be considered. I would happily support that, cause it would bring the playing ground a lot closer to fair than it is right now. Appreciate the time you took into reading/commenting on this. 🙂

 

Of course! Obviously I'm not happy that a bug was available in the game that was abusable, and I'm furthermore upset that solving this bug disrupted not only a competition but a thought-to-be efficient way of training a particular skill.

Like I said, we're still waiting on David's input and once we have the go-ahead to move forward with an idea, we will let you know what will happen.

[Ironsky]

3 minutes ago, Chaflie said:

Hi there,

I've been spit-balling what to do about this problem in my mind for the last little bit, and I've come to the conclusion that resetting peoples levels, or putting a bug back into the game isn't quite acceptable.

We're currently waiting on David's input into the matter before we make any moves, but to get some ideas rolling that don't involve resetting people or putting a bug back into the game, would taking away the 10x modifier on plank prices for ironmen be something we can chat about?

Good to see staff active on the forums.

understandable ofcourse. While i stand that lowering xp in the stated skills for people who specifically point out they want to participate in the competition would be a decent option. The lowering of the plank prices would also "fix" this issue to a certain extend.

 

I've offered this solution to hope before. and he mentioned that construction is and should be the most expensive skill in the game. which i agree to. current prices are a bit over the top. i would personally suggest lowering the modifier to 1 or 2x to allow people who havent abused bugs to catch up at a rougly simular rate (Taking into account here gathering gp and logs countering the lower xp rates of molten glass and limestone) . 

I would however suggest to increase it after the competition is over. to a in my mind more reasonable 3-5x rate. but for that specific balancing all i ask is that ironman gp gathering problems are held into account.

[Zoom3r]

this is due to not having enough/ the right beta/bug testers. at the time you guys were more excited to give youtubers and famous players access to the beta for free advertisement. There was not enough time put into finding game breaking mechanics, unfair advantages, and other malicious acts. there are still lots left. 

 

[Ironsky]

2 minutes ago, Zoom3r said:

this is due to not having enough/ the right beta/bug testers. at the time you guys were more excited to give youtubers and famous players access to the beta for free advertisement. There was not enough time put into finding game breaking mechanics, unfair advantages, and other malicious acts. there are still lots left. 

 

I would put this blame more on the actual beta testers as wel. most beta testers didnt go through the slower, tedious grinds to find these bugs.

[TheJacob]

@Chaflie please consider the following proposed changes in regards to balancing mechanics that have been changed during this race:

If changes to the price of planks are made then other skill reworks are suggested to be implemented in order to provide the same benefit to players that took the time to level construction over other skills. Construction took me 20 hours of high APM game play to max.

1. Smithing: gold ores sold in blast furnace must be reduced by 90% GP cost (to 100 GP) and restock timer set to 100x gold ores every time the shop resets.
2. Smithing: ice gloves made available since smithing was maxed in 2-3 hours prior to any reworks. Estimated maxing time now is 8-10 hours from 40.
3. Farming/Herblore: magic secauters made available in order to compensate those that didn't take advantage of ultra compost during x300+ herb runs at 6 patches.
   1. (The changes to bird runs are amazing for farming, it's just herblore that needs a boost of raw materials.)
4. Crafting: loot table for wall safe's restored to its original state on launch.

I am also available on Discord for any follow-ups.

[Xp waste]

2 hours ago, Sen said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Kami said:

 

 

1 minute ago, TheJacob said:

@Chaflie please consider the following proposed changes in regards to balancing mechanics that have been changed during this race:

If changes to the price of planks are made then other skill reworks are suggested to be implemented in order to provide the same benefit to players that took the time to level construction over other skills. Construction took me 20 hours of high APM game play to max.

1. Smithing: gold ores sold in blast furnace must be reduced by 90% GP cost (to 100 GP) and restock timer set to 100x gold ores every time the shop resets.
2. Smithing: ice gloves made available since smithing was maxed in 2-3 hours prior to any reworks. Estimated maxing time now is 8-10 hours from 40.
3. Farming/Herblore: magic secauters made available in order to compensate those that didn't take advantage of ultra compost during x300+ herb runs at 6 patches.
   1. (The changes to bird runs are amazing for farming, it's just herblore that needs a boost of raw materials.)
4. Crafting: loot table for wall safe's restored to its original state on launch.

I am also available on Discord for any follow-ups.

I 100% agree with your post TheJacob!

[n o v a]

2 minutes ago, TheJacob said:

Smithing: gold ores sold in blast furnace must be reduced by 90% GP cost (to 100 GP) and restock timer set to 100x gold ores every time the shop resets

1. Smithing: ice gloves made available since smithing was maxed in 2-3 hours prior to any reworks. Estimated maxing time now is 8-10 hours from 40.
2. Farming/Herblore: magic secauters made available in order to compensate those that didn't take advantage of ultra compost during x300+ herb runs at 6 patches.
   1. (The changes to bird runs are amazing for farming, it's just herblore that needs a boost of raw materials.)
3. Crafting: loot table for wall safe's restored to its original state on launch.

Support this. Some of the initial nerfs were just really unhealthy in general so reverting would honestly just be best.

[November]

4 minutes ago, TheJacob said:

@Chaflie please consider the following proposed changes in regards to balancing mechanics that have been changed during this race:

If changes to the price of planks are made then other skill reworks are suggested to be implemented in order to provide the same benefit to players that took the time to level construction over other skills. Construction took me 20 hours of high APM game play to max.

1. Smithing: gold ores sold in blast furnace must be reduced by 90% GP cost (to 100 GP) and restock timer set to 100x gold ores every time the shop resets.
2. Smithing: ice gloves made available since smithing was maxed in 2-3 hours prior to any reworks. Estimated maxing time now is 8-10 hours from 40.
3. Farming/Herblore: magic secauters made available in order to compensate those that didn't take advantage of ultra compost during x300+ herb runs at 6 patches.
   1. (The changes to bird runs are amazing for farming, it's just herblore that needs a boost of raw materials.)
4. Crafting: loot table for wall safe's restored to its original state on launch.

I am also available on Discord for any follow-ups.

 

3 minutes ago, Xp waste said:

 

 

I 100% agree with your post TheJacob!

 

Didn't you both rat out the molten glass being cheap methods for 99 construction after getting 99 construction yourselves?

[HRD]

1 hour ago, Chaflie said:

Hi there,

I've been spit-balling what to do about this problem in my mind for the last little bit, and I've come to the conclusion that resetting peoples levels, or putting a bug back into the game isn't quite acceptable.

We're currently waiting on David's input into the matter before we make any moves, but to get some ideas rolling that don't involve resetting people or putting a bug back into the game, would taking away the 10x modifier on plank prices for ironmen be something we can chat about?

The main problem with Construction is the price of the planks. It has come to my attention that the price is actually a lot lower than I originally said, but still, it's a lot for Ironman.

If the 10x would get removed, I'd say the problem gets solved? This would need to be implemented in the rest of the skills that require a lot of shop buying.

You can't change the past, but you can make sure the future is fair and square for eveyone.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Kami

[November]

1 minute ago, Kami said:

The main problem with Construction is the price of the planks. It has come to my attention that the price is actually a lot lower than I originally said, but still, it's a lot for Ironman.

If the 10x would get removed, I'd say the problem gets solved? This would need to be implemented in the rest of the skills that require a lot of shop buying.

You can't change the past, but you can make the future is fair and square for eveyone.

My t3 Bench was a pretty time consuming yet cheap method, it was not as much XP as Planks but it was for sure way cheaper, not sure why it was 'nerfed' as it didn't need nerfing ( 4k molten glass for normal rates and like 20k molten glass for x8 rates )

[HRD]

Just now, November said:

My t3 Bench was a pretty time consuming yet cheap method, it was not as much XP as Planks but it was for sure way cheaper, not sure why it was 'nerfed' as it didn't need nerfing ( 4k molten glass for normal rates and like 20k molten glass for x8 rates )

Exactly. I didn't know about the molten glass method. It did no harm.

[Chaflie]

Just now, November said:

My t3 Bench was a pretty time consuming yet cheap method, it was not as much XP as Planks but it was for sure way cheaper, not sure why it was 'nerfed' as it didn't need nerfing ( 4k molten glass for normal rates and like 20k molten glass for x8 rates )

 

Because our experience rates are supposed to be your gamemodes rate * OSRS experience.

Crafting Benches were supposed to grant 1 and 2 experience respectively, this was a bug.

[FAQ]

11 minutes ago, TheJacob said:

@Chaflie please consider the following proposed changes in regards to balancing mechanics that have been changed during this race:

If changes to the price of planks are made then other skill reworks are suggested to be implemented in order to provide the same benefit to players that took the time to level construction over other skills. Construction took me 20 hours of high APM game play to max.

1. Smithing: gold ores sold in blast furnace must be reduced by 90% GP cost (to 100 GP) and restock timer set to 100x gold ores every time the shop resets.
2. Smithing: ice gloves made available since smithing was maxed in 2-3 hours prior to any reworks. Estimated maxing time now is 8-10 hours from 40.
3. Farming/Herblore: magic secauters made available in order to compensate those that didn't take advantage of ultra compost during x300+ herb runs at 6 patches.
   1. (The changes to bird runs are amazing for farming, it's just herblore that needs a boost of raw materials.)
4. Crafting: loot table for wall safe's restored to its original state on launch.

I am also available on Discord for any follow-ups.

I would +1 this, as it would also more closely align the playing field to a level position. I would hope that no-one who's posted singling out construction would be found in opposition of these changes - they have the same merits, after all.

Averaging 20+ hours of playtime (which does not include splashing the other 4 when possible) a day - it still took me a full day's worth of high effort focus to get this grind done. Construction is about to be made not only cheaper but also faster -- it only makes sense to extend the courtesy to other players for the other skills. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by FAQ

[Xp waste]

@November i actually did oak planks to 99 construction. making glass on an UIM is way slower.

[Chaflie]

2 minutes ago, FAQ said:

I would +1 this, as it would also more closely align the playing field to a level position. I would hope that no-one who's posted singling out construction would be found in opposition of these changes - they have the same merits, after all.

Averaging 20+ hours of playtime (which does not include splashing the other 4 when possible) a day - it still took me a full day's worth of high effort focus to get this grind done. Construction is about to be made not only cheaper but also faster -- it only makes sense to extend the courtesy to other players for the other skills. 

Please note we're still waiting on David's input and we're only brainstorming here. The proposed change to Construction is not set in stone yet.

[FAQ]

6 minutes ago, November said:

Didn't you both rat out the molten glass being cheap methods for 99 construction after getting 99 construction yourselves?

Gnars and Zara did, we just followed the template they laid out, not sure how you can believe we're somehow responsible for exposing something? It was nearly a week after launch (and 140 hours of play time) before we even started. If we thought it was a bug to abuse that was going to be patched, wouldn't we have done it immediately?

[HRD]

@Chaflie I'd put some pressure in this matter since a lot of people got thrown away from the competition becouse of bug abuses. It's only fair to make things right.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Kami

[November]

Just now, FAQ said:

Gnars and Zara did, we just followed the template they laid out, not sure how you can believe we're somehow responsible for exposing something? It was nearly a week after launch (and 140 hours of play time) before we even started. If we thought it was a bug to abuse that was going to be patched, wouldn't we have done it immediately?

Just looking at the times, you were some of the last people to get it.

 

Also Gnars and Zara gain nothing from it, it's been known since day 1 and it had 0 traction from any staff as far as anyone could tell.

[FAQ]

Just now, November said:

Just looking at the times, you were some of the last people to get it.

 

Also Gnars and Zara gain nothing from it, it's been known since day 1 and it had 0 traction from any staff as far as anyone could tell.

Are you implying that this was somehow unknown to the developers until two elite ironmen maxed the skill with a method that was live broadcast to well over a hundred people a week prior?

[November]

Just now, FAQ said:

Are you implying that this was somehow unknown to the developers until two elite ironmen maxed the skill with a method that was live broadcast to well over a hundred people a week prior?

I'm implying a very unknown method that isn't meta in osrs would go unnoticed regardless of who maxed it already, hence why some people maxing it and then reporting it seems more than enough reasons for it to not be "fixed" since it IS a race.